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#208 - Trolling Thursday
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Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 8th, 2010 08:40:05 am ]
Post subject:  #208 - Trolling Thursday

Discuss the Top Ten Worst Dominion Card rankings from Request Comics #208 here.

Author:  salogel42 [ October 8th, 2010 23:14:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

I'm going to assume you're not serious about some of these, or at least Chapel, but while a lot of these cards are pretty useless in some games, the can be pretty awesome in others. Well, maybe not Chancellor. I just got through implementing it in the java version I'm coding up for fun, and felt a bit silly buying it (to test it out) when I could be buying silvers.

I'm going to go with Lookout as my least favorite card, though. I *might* buy one if I'm in a game with no other trashing cards at all, but even then it's usually not worth it. Unless it's a witch-escalation game.

Also not a big fan of Coppersmith, but I have seen a friend win on a coppersmith strategy (he never bought silvers or golds, bought a bunch of wishing wells, coppersmiths, extra coppers, and throne rooms and it worked out well for him).

Oh, and Warehouse is like a more lame version of Cellar that costs more...

And I'm not a fan of Sea Hag because it doesn't get you any direct benefit when you play it, and if the curses run out it's complete dead-weight.

I haven't seen Alchemy or Prosperity yet, so dunno about any of those cards.

Author:  salogel42 [ October 8th, 2010 23:20:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Also, apparently I haven't been here for a year and a half. Guess it takes asking a question about a game I've been thinking about pretty regularly for several months to lure me back.

Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 13th, 2010 02:59:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

I seriously love Lookout. It comes across as slow because it only trashes one card, but the fact that it's not a terminal action does a lot to make up for that. Unlike Chapel, it's worth playing even if you draw other useful actions with it, so it can get used more often with less opportunity cost. Even having multiples in one hand isn't a problem. I like to get two Lookouts fairly early on, then once the required trashing starts to become a drawback, use one to trash the other.

There's also the benefit of affecting your next hand instead of your current one. Trashing an Estate from your hand doesn't give any benefit until the next time you shuffle, and trashing a Copper actually hurts you a bit short-term*, since your buy is going to be less. But trashing Coppers or Estates from your next hand helps, since you'll be drawing something else to replace them. And the fact that Lookout also discards one of the cards basically doubles this effect. I think it's a much stronger card for streamlining a deck than people give it credit for.

*which isn't to say it's a bad idea, but it does have this small downside

Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 13th, 2010 03:06:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

My non-trolling list of bad Dominion cards would include Duke, Coppersmith, and Woodcutter. Adventurer might make it on, but none of the other cards from this strip would.

Author:  willandbeyond [ October 13th, 2010 03:21:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Coppersmith is pretty powerful for the first few turns; seems like a similar argument as chancellor.

Author:  Lewis Powell [ October 13th, 2010 03:23:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Chancellor is powerful for the first half of the game, doubly so if witch, sea hag, or familiar is in the supply.

Author:  Lewis Powell [ October 13th, 2010 03:25:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Woodcutter is a bad card.

Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 13th, 2010 03:43:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

On Coppersmith, I think "card that can trick people into making the mistake of buying more Copper" was done better by Moneylender, and "card that makes buying more Copper actually worthwhile" was done better by Gardens.

Author:  salogel42 [ October 13th, 2010 21:23:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Ben Heaton wrote:
I seriously love Lookout.


I'm not saying I'd never get it. Like I said, if there's no other way to trash things or more than a third of my deck consists of bad or useless cards, I'll take it. However, I have been in the position of drawing 3 really good cards and having to trash a gold to save my provinces -- so yeah, good early game card, but if you can't get rid of it by other means (salvager, remodel, etc.) doesn't seem worth it to me.

Ben Heaton wrote:
My non-trolling list of pants Dominion cards would include Duke, Coppersmith, and Woodcutter. Adventurer might make it on, but none of the other cards from this strip would.


Duke is kinda fun, you can get some crazy-high scores (two of my friends played a 2-player Duke game and came out with final scores at 96 to 97 or something like that). Yeah, in some games it's pretty useless, but if you can consistently get 6 or 7 but not 8, it's nice to have the option of going Duchy-Duke which can often overtake a straight province strategy. You do dilute your deck more but unless you were going for serious deck-thinning to begin with (and in that case you should be able to buy provinces anyway), you should be fine.

Adventurer is sucky in non-trashing games, but if you can do deck-thinning it's pretty awesome. If you've completely eliminated your coppers it's a guaranteed 4-6 coin which is really strong. I pretty much only buy it if I've gotten rid of most of my coppers already and have several golds.

Lewis Powell wrote:
Chancellor is powerful for the first half of the game, doubly so if witch, sea hag, or familiar is in the supply.


Again, it depends on what else is in the game. If there's no branching, I don't do Chancellor.

willandbeyond wrote:
Coppersmith is pretty powerful for the first few turns; seems like a similar argument as chancellor.


Yeah, if you can upgrade/remodel/salvage it later (or just plain trash it), it's ok for early game, but if there's no trashing, totally not worth it.

Lewis Powell wrote:
Woodcutter is a pants card.


Yes, unless you're in a game with lots of extra actions (i.e. a lot of branching) but no plus buys. Then at least you can pick up an extra silver now and then. Or if you're in a cursing/diluted deck game and you want to pick up lots of Gardens at the end. In most games, though, yeah, I won't touch Woodcutter.

Ben Heaton wrote:
On Coppersmith, I think "card that can trick people into making the mistake of buying more Copper" was done better by Moneylender, and "card that makes buying more Copper actually worthwhile" was done better by Gardens.


Huh, you buy more coppers to feed your moneylender? I just try to drop the moneylender as soon as it's served its purpose in life (getting rid of all my coppers).

Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 20th, 2010 07:07:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

I wouldn't buy coppers for a Moneylender, but it's a possible mistake people can be led to by the card. I like it when a strong card can backfire by being misused, like continuing to use Lookout in the late game, or using Swindler without paying attention to what your opponents have been buying.

Author:  Lewis Powell [ October 23rd, 2010 02:24:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Apprentice is the best card. We all know that right?

Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 23rd, 2010 19:38:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

I was wondering how long it would be before you came in to say that.

Author:  Lewis Powell [ October 24th, 2010 01:37:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

One time during a game, I had already bought 5 apprentices, and the second time I apprenticed an apprentice, one of the people playing with me said, "Lewis, you know that apprentice is a non-renewable resource, right?"

Pretty sure I won that game.

Author:  Diane Heaton [ October 26th, 2010 07:15:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

I won a game over the weekend using Apprentice and University. After some initial thinning, most of my turns went: trash things I don't care about anymore, draw my whole deck, gain some more five-cost actions, draw them too, buy stuff. Those five-cost actions included Festival and Library, so it was an especially good setup for this.

Author:  Rectangle [ October 28th, 2010 02:58:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

My #1 worst dominion card is Curse.

I can't think of a single game where I bought one of those and didn't regret it.

Author:  willandbeyond [ January 10th, 2011 19:40:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Rectangle wrote:
My #1 worst dominion card is Curse.

I can't think of a single game where I bought one of those and didn't regret it.


Buying one and then masquerading it is hilarious though.

Author:  Diane Heaton [ January 10th, 2011 20:28:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #208 - Trolling Thursday

Prosperity's made Curses more useful. I've sometimes bought them with a Goons/Watchtower thing going.

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